並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/pa/podcast/ep316-%E5%90%B3%E6%B7%A1%E5%A6%82-%E4%B8%83%E7%A7%92%E9%90%98%E8%89%B2%E5%BD%A9%E8%B3%BA%E9%8C%A2%E7%90%86%E8%AB%96/id1536242998?i=1000534751593&l=en
